[00:00:00] Matteo: I’m definitely a much happier person. I would say, since I’ve been living here, living in a country where there’s more sunny days in a year than rainy days, it makes me feel like it’s It just makes me feel happier in general. I feel like I wake up in a better mood, I go to bed in a better mood.
[00:00:20] Scott: Hi there, and welcome to the first episode of Made It In Thailand, the podcast where we learn how to survive and thrive in amazing Thailand from people who are living the good life in the kingdom.
I’m your host, Scott Pressimone. Today I have a fantastic guest. Fascinating guest, Matteo Trovato. Matteo is gonna share his journey of starting a new life in Thailand and carving out a successful career in the world of digital marketing and SEO. He’ll share insights in defining employment as an expat, navigating cultural differences, and staying healthy despite being surrounded by delicious food.
Without further ado, let’s jump into the interview.
[00:00:58] Matteo: Hey, Scott. Yes. Thank you for inviting me to your. New podcast. I’m excited to be here. my name is Matteo. I am originally from Italy, but I grew up in Switzerland. I attended all my, schools in Switzerland and after graduating from university, in 2013, I started working, at different companies in Switzerland and throughout Europe.
And then at around 2000, I would say 2016, I decided to quit everything from what I was doing back home and decided, okay, I want to try something new. And back then I had in mind to either go to Latin America or to travel to Asia. my plan actually was I’m going to do one year. Maybe in Latin America.
And then a year later, I’m going to try and move to Asia. but the more I was thinking about, should I start on the West? Should I start on the East? I actually ended up deciding when to start in Asia because Latin America to me felt very much, Too similar to my own culture, Latin. I’m Italian. So it felt like I wouldn’t have been, feeling completely out of place.
I would have felt so somewhat similar to how I used to grow up. So I decided, Okay, I want to try something completely different. I want to try to go to Asia and I never. Back then, I had not stepped into Asia territory. So that was my very first time saying, okay, I go to Asia, fly a one way ticket there.
And my very first stop actually was Thailand. I, flew to Thailand. I was in Bangkok for about a week. I hung out in Bangkok. I tried to see a few places. I didn’t really have the idea of settling anywhere. My plan was really to try to find different places, to, try to, visit different countries, try to see what I liked.
And, and then later on decide where I wanted to settle. And so I stayed in Thailand for a little bit, and then I hopped around different countries in Southeast Asia, went to Japan, went to Korea, went to Taiwan, Malaysia, Hong Kong, and hopped to these different countries a few times, as well as Thailand.
And every time I came back to Thailand, I liked it more and more. to a point where a few months later, I would say about nine months later, I felt Like I needed some stable ground and I wanted to be a little bit more, present in one place and start to make new friends and try to meet new people.
Because when you keep traveling every second week or every month to a different city, it’s different to meet people and to create friendships and I lacked that although I enjoyed the adventure. I also wanted to Feel like I had a place to stay a place to leave and didn’t want to really leave out of my suitcase or at hotel rooms.
I wanted to stay in some someplace. I liked and potentially find a job and that’s where I decided Okay I tried to stay in thailand. it felt to me that Thai people were very friendly and, easy to, to get along with. And generally being in Bangkok with English, you can, survive.
and it feels like you don’t necessarily need to speak Thai, if you stay in, in the city of Bangkok, lots of people here speak English. So for a foreigner like me with no Thai language knowledge at the time, it a good place to start my sort of Asian adventure. and then when I, decide, okay, I decide to stay here in, in Bangkok, I started to look for jobs.
back then, I didn’t have any. Any connections? I pretty much went on LinkedIn, and that was my starting place, and I spruced up my profile. I cleaned it up. I added as many details as I could, about my past experiences at companies I work for in Europe and started to connect with business owners.
Actually, my, my strategy was really to, try to connect with CEOs and business owners of companies, here in Bangkok. I mostly connected with, Thai companies back then. I didn’t really know how to navigate the job market. I didn’t know there were also many, international companies here in Thailand, based out of Bangkok.
So for the most part, I was really getting in touch with Thai companies and. one of them, ended up hiring me, after not many weeks that I was actually trying to make connections, on LinkedIn. so I started working for a Thai company, actually a Thai startup, here in Bangkok. And when I started working there, I realized how different it is to work for a Thai owned company, run by Thai people, with mostly Thai staff.
it was definitely an interesting experience. I enjoyed it. And I learned a lot. but I also felt like it would have been hard for me to stick around for a longer time at a company like this, so different from the environments that I was used, at working back in Europe.
[00:06:43] Scott: Sorry to interrupt, but let me put a bookmark there.
I’d love to hear more about what those differences were that made you think, you might want to try out some other companies. But taking a step back, you had mentioned that, You just booked a one way flight to Thailand or to Bangkok in this case, right? And is that something that, had you ever been to Thailand or Southeast Asia prior?
Had you been traveling, let’s say, with your family or on a college trip or anything like that to Asia? Or was this the first time ever doing that?
[00:07:11] Matteo: I did have, a chance to travel to Asia, through one of my previous companies. but that was like a very short trip, and actually, that was the entire catalyst of why I decided to then move back to Asia because When I came here on a trip on a business trip, moving back to Europe in winter, I felt a little bit miserable.
I remember there was some sometime around February of 2016 or something like that. and it felt miserable. Actually, hearing in Asia around that time, it was pretty much middle of the summer. or at least it felt summer to me was really hot, sunny and going back to Europe. It felt. Cold, gray and gloomy.
And I was tired already of living, in, Europe. I always had that hunch of wanting to explore more, outside of my sort of home country and the places that I grew up in. and so that made me think of why not traveling for a while, why not leaving the, the comfort zone of where I grew up and, back then I was just turning 30 and I didn’t have, any, big commitments that, kept me where I was, except for my family, obviously.
And so I decided I’m going to try and, and. move abroad for a while. And that was actually when I was starting to consider Latin America or Asia and decide, okay, I’ll try Asia. Actually, it feels like more of a difference than where I know where I was back then in Switzerland.
[00:08:58] Scott: What
[00:08:58] Matteo: did your parents
[00:08:58] Scott: think of this?
[00:09:01] Matteo: my mom was definitely scared. she had been to Thailand actually on her honeymoon, many years prior to me. And, obviously, I don’t know, back then when she came here, Thailand was definitely a much different place than it is today. her stories obviously were very much, a bit catastrophic in her mind of like how, underdeveloped the country was when she visited it, and how dangerous it could have been.
she told me a few stories of, misadventures that happened to her when she came here and But I still was very positive because to me, I felt like there was, there were many, years before, I had decided to, to take this step and go on this adventure.
I’m, a positive person in general. I don’t think bad things happen to positive people. And so that wasn’t really the case and that was actually the really. So I came here, nothing bad happened to me. Overall, it was just a very positive experience. and over time I was able to, just keep in touch with family every day.
It’s actually very easy when you travel abroad in this day and age through, FaceTime calls and Internet connection. So it’s very easy. And Thailand is very connected country. Like you have high speed Internet pretty much everywhere. there’s really no, no way to getting detached from, the, Western world unless you really want it.
I feel like it’s easy to, stay in touch with everybody.
[00:10:58] Scott: Yeah, I think, a lot of people are surprised by that. I’m, from the U S and, I think if people saw the, that for 10, roughly 10 U S dollars or 300 bot or so, you can get almost unlimited internet that never goes down on your phone and stuff like that.
It’s, it’s superior here than it seems like a lot of countries and it’s not very hard to get access. I know in places like Japan, you have to go through certain hoops to get your, Access here, you go into a 7 Eleven, you show an ID, and And you can get in touch with your family very easily. I want to touch on something else.
So you said that you had moved here and you got that one way flight around age 30, I believe you said. And so you had a bit of a career now, since the time I’ve known you, Matteo, you’ve always been just the guy that knows everything about marketing and SEO, right? a ton about that stuff, but I don’t know, is that something that you picked up over the years or is that something that you were actually doing prior to moving here?
[00:11:56] Matteo: I’ve been doing SEO since I graduated from university. actually, as soon as I graduated from university, I. I started working for a company in Switzerland and in my evenings and weekends, I started dabbling with, online marketing. I remember distinctively, there was a period of time where I used to come back home from work and I would just sit at my, Kitchen table and work or study actually SEO till very late at night.
And that was actually the beginning of my sort of learning process about digital marketing and seo. I didn’t really study seo and digital marketing in university, but I started learning or self learning, right after it and so I started as soon as I basically got hired from out of university, worked, evenings and weekends.
I built a bunch of personal websites. I create a bunch of personal projects that I used as experiments for me to learn the ins and outs of SEO and how to rank websites on Google and different other search engines. And that’s how I really got started. So it was more than 10 years ago, most likely.
And then, over time I decided to, start offering my services, as a freelancer, while I was still working at, the different companies I worked at, over the years. I liked the idea. I’ve always felt a bit entrepreneurial, but never really felt entrepreneurial to the point where I could.
Maybe start my own company s O. I liked, the sort of quote unquote stability of having a day job and a regular paycheck coming in every month. But I also like the idea of hunting for my own clients and helping them with their own sort of digital marketing needs. And that’s how I got started offering services to small businesses, back in Europe, and then I decided as my English skills evolved and improved, I felt more confident to go out and try to find clients, in English speaking countries, mostly in the UK, United States and so on.
[00:14:20] Scott: It’s funny. It’s, it meets the cliche of. go to Thailand, sit on the beach, and, and be like an SEO person. It’s funny, because we’ve, I think we’ve both probably seen a lot of people that wanted to live that dream, but you did it the long and hard way, right? Because there are a lot of those people that don’t know much, and they And they’re like, pitch this and they try to like, relax on the beach.
And everything I know about you, Matteo, you are not a Mr. Relax on the Beach guy. You may be living in Thailand, but you’re always hard at work. but that, it sounds like you’ve always had that passion though, right? it wasn’t just something you picked up to, have an excuse to live abroad. It sounds like that was always your passion.
so let’s transition back to, that first job you got in Thailand. it sounds like you did LinkedIn Outreach. You were reaching out to business owners. You found a, it was a Thai company or a Thai business owner, correct? That you first, and was that first job in the SEO, was it in digital marketing or was it, did you have to take a little bit of a pit stop on that first job?
What was the, what was that like?
[00:15:25] Matteo: Sure. before moving to Thailand, eventually I. I got a job into digital marketing at a company back in Europe. I never, I didn’t do digital marketing right from the beginning. I did more traditional marketing. I had more traditional marketing jobs, at different companies.
Eventually I got into digital marketing at my last company back in Europe. When I quit that job, I moved to Thailand and I was actually looking for a job in digital marketing. and so the first company that hired me here in Thailand was actually a company, an e commerce company that was looking for, a digital marketing account manager.
And so I wasn’t actually running campaigns, myself, but I was, helping the clients I was managing, run their campaign through the delivery team. Inside of the company I was working at. So I had, experience, communicating with clients and I had experience running campaigns. So I was basically the bridge between the client and the execution team at the agency I was working at, here in Bangkok.
[00:16:38] Scott: And then you, had mentioned that, it’s a little bit different, like Thai companies and the way that they’re run are sometimes a bit different. again, there’s pluses and minuses to everything, but I’m just curious, what was something notable, or something maybe that surprised you, in that, first job that you landed here?
[00:16:55] Matteo: Yeah. it wasn’t like a big, neg or a negative experience by any means. considering that the company I was working for was a startup. ran by, Thai CEO who had international work experience. So it was very westernized in many ways, but there were also a lot of sort of Thai cultural, aspects to the company.
So everything had to go through top managing management at any time. middle management. Although you may have had, a manager title that was mostly, That wasn’t really considered in terms of like decision making decisions were only made by, director levels or sea level at that company, which at times it felt like, you wanted to be a little bit more responsible for the direction of the department that you were running or the campaigns that you’re running for.
For the clients that you are managing, like in my case, but ultimately it was very much, all ran by the top management of the company. And on top of that, while I was working at the company and I was the account manager, for a bunch of clients here in Thailand, actually, my clients were Thai as well and Thai clients actually like to work with foreigners, but there’s also a point where Thai client feel much more comfortable having a Thai employee.
point of contact rather than, a foreign point of contact. our style of communication is different, as a, foreigner myself. I might have tendencies of being a little bit more direct, and say things just the way I see them without having to necessarily try to circumnavigate a little bit too or too much, around the problems that I may see, at times while working with the client, whereas Thai people or maybe a Thai account manager may have had more diplomatic approach, a much more Sort of soft way of pleasing the client.
And I feel like at kind of the end of my tenure at that company, the relationship between me and my client, the main client I was working for, became not unsustainable, but it wasn’t as, as positive and prolific as it was. Was at the very beginning of our sort of relationship, the client had learned how I worked and, I felt like my boss came to me at my company, saying that obviously they wanted to take me away from the client.
They wanted to assign the client to a Thai account manager. They felt working with a Thai account manager would have been better for their client. And so that was actually the time when, coincidentally. A headhunter reached out to me on LinkedIn, offering me another job at another digital marketing agency in Bangkok.
and the difference with the first digital marketing agency from the second one is that the second one was, an American owned digital marketing agency. And, when I decided to go through the first, interview round, I immediately felt the cultural difference between a Thai owned company and an American owned company, and so I decided to pursue the, the interview process with this new agency and eventually decided to quit my first company and join the second agency.
[00:20:53] Scott: Wow. something we didn’t touch on is how the work permits and things like that were working for you. Because, it seems like you certainly did everything above board, right? you arrived here, you wanted to find a legal way to work. You did. I assume that first company you worked for provided you with the work permit and things like that.
so how was that process for you overall, I guess either in that first company or the transition, was that pretty seamless or no?
[00:21:20] Matteo: seamless. Although I, have to say a lot of, I was very lucky and a lot of things happened right at the right time for me. so I came here on a tourist visa, the very first time I came here, and decided, I always came with a tourist visa, but when I decided to actually settle here in Thailand, I had a 30 day tourist visa and, back then, I don’t know if it’s still the same, but you could.
Extend your 30 day by another 30 days. Eso if effectively you could stay within the country for 60 days without having to get out and come back. And so I had told myself within the 60 days, I need to find a job so that a company can sponsor me and provide me with a work permit. and that actually happened.
With my first company that hired me here in Bangkok. and then when the second company approached me, it was really more of a matter of transferring the work permit from the first company to the second company. and that process was all taken care of by the HR departments of both companies. I didn’t really have to do, much probably had to pro, I don’t know, probably had to provide a few documents or, Certificates, but for the most part, everything was done by the first company that hired me.
That was actually the longest process because to get your very first work permit, you eventually need to get out of the country. You need to go to a neighboring country. In my case, I decided to go to Laos to get my I don’t remember exactly the name of the visa I had to get, but I had to get a visa, stamp on my passport outside of, of Thailand at a Thai embassy, abroad, and then come back to Thailand to get my work permit.
Everything was taken care of by the company that hired me. but it was a necessary step in my case. But the second time that I got hired here in Thailand, given that the type of work permit I, I had was the exact same that the second company required. I just needed to do a work permit transfer from company A to company B.
[00:23:41] Scott: was there anything else that you found advantageous after that move?
[00:23:47] Matteo: I would say for the most part, I didn’t start as an ad marketing, I was actually hired as a team manager for the actual, for the marketing services team. in my first role at Pronto Marketing, I was, Often in contact with clients.
And as you said, the majority of the clients at Pronto Marketing are North in North America or in English speaking countries outside of Thailand. And so obviously, I felt much more at ease speaking with Thai or sorry with American clients in English. I think culture wise, there’s obvious, much more, closer fit a closer match.
I didn’t have to learn a whole bunch of new things about Americans. I had been exposed to American culture before, so it, for me, it was a much easier transition into that company and role rather than being hired by an, a Thai company that yes, used English internally, but for the most part, the environment was, English.
tie, in terms of management and of operations the way the company was ran. yeah, I would say working at Pronto Marketing, has had a lot of benefits for me. and a lot of the top management at Pronto is American or, expats, who have been, who have lived in America or are American.
So there’s definitely more of that sort of international, atmosphere at Pronto marketing than I felt it at my, first company.
[00:25:29] Scott: It really sounds like you were on the ground messaging people to try to find your first job, right? And then, You work your way up enough to have a good enough job in that company to have a headhunter go after you, which, again, just to clarify, that’s not an easy thing to do.
you don’t fly to Thailand and all of a sudden have a headhunter saying, let me line you up with a job. you have to, have built up a good position by that stage. and then, as you said, you then moved up to get into the position you’re in now. So it wasn’t, the easiest path, unless you’d summarize it differently.
and I don’t know about if you’ve seen this, but I know that I came to Thailand thinking that I would just get the job pretty easily. Whereas, I realized no You gotta, go off the beaten track a little bit. You have to work your way through, no one’s going to hand you a job because you’re from Italy or U.
S. or wherever else. is there any other lessons that, would you share that, feeling? if there’s someone that’s thinking about coming to Thailand, do you know anyone that’s had a very easy, transition?
[00:26:34] Matteo: I don’t know anyone Personally, that had an easy transition. however, I have to say that personally, I felt I had an edge applying to jobs here in Thailand, rather than when I was living back in Europe, probably because as a foreigner with, international work experience coming to a country like Thailand, I think Thai companies or, first of all, I would say Thai companies, look up to foreigners, in certain areas.
Because I’d imagine they think of us as like people that have. just different experiences and that could can bring that experience into their companies and potentially elevate the quality of the services they offer. And so I think I attribute somewhat my luck of finding my first job fairly quickly to that.
I, applied. without big expectations, really, or I contacted got in touch with, this business owners without big expectations, really. but I felt that I had a much higher response rate than if I had done the same sort of Or use the same approach to, with business owners back in Europe. I feel like in Europe, I would just blend in with the rest of the people that have my exact, work experience and job titles.
Whereas here, I’m more of like an outsider or an outlier, like this guy comes from Switzerland, has been, has graduated from a university in Europe, has worked at different companies in Europe, and now he’s moving to Thailand and wants to bring his experience to, Thailand. I feel that gave me an edge.
but it’s definitely not easy. obviously it depends what you are looking for as well. when I left Europe, I also left a pretty big salary on the table. I was earning much more than. what I was expecting to earn by moving to Asia, but my desire of exploring a new continent was bigger than the salary that I was earning back home.
I knew that with enough hard work and dedication and perseverance, I would have found my way, even if at a lower level, salary. to start with. But over time, I have to say I’m happy where I’m, over the past 45 years, I’ve, progressed in my career here in Thailand, and I’m now at a point where I feel fairly satisfied with my position, my responsibilities.
the job I do, I love it. It’s what I’ve always been wanting to do since I found, digital marketing and SEO, and I’m actually now doing a day in the out and I earned a lot of Just enough to be happy and to feel committed to the company I work for and to continue progress my career in this field
[00:29:48] Scott: got it and just to piggyback off something that you had shared about Standing out more or having the edge as you said.
In Thailand, I think you’ve probably looked through a lot of resumes of foreigners and Thais that are applying for positions. And something that I’d found, and I’m curious if you have as well, is that not everyone sends a cover letter. Not everyone customizes their resume to a position. not everyone messages you on LinkedIn to follow up, not everyone dresses appropriately to interviews, right? sometimes the things that you might take for granted or think are relatively normal, in another country aren’t necessarily normal and can help you stand out here. so had you noticed that as well? or I’m sure you’ve got some interesting resumes and stuff like that, since you are in quite a leadership position right now.
[00:30:42] Matteo: Yes, I, certainly. Had learned this after I started hiring here in Thailand, when I was applying for jobs, especially at the very beginning, I had no clue who I was up against. I was should he did not shoot it in the dark and trying to do my best to stand out in a humble way. I didn’t want to be like, brag about my past accomplishments or where it was coming from.
But I was definitely trying to lean on my strengths as much as possible. but once I started. recruiting for jobs at the companies I was working for and still working for now. I noticed how low the bar is. however, I think there is a difference between obviously there’s not a lot of, open jobs for expats in Thailand.
the far majority of open openings in Thailand are for Thai people, for locals. and I did have the chance to hire a lot of Thai people. And I would say if any Thai person is listening to this podcast, there’s definitely a good opportunity for you to stand out just by polishing up your resume. sending a personalized email if you can, maybe a little, like a short introductory video, that would go a long way.
Nobody’s doing that. maybe a private, like a private message on LinkedIn to the person that you are sending your resume to. That would be already more than what 99 percent of people do. Of people do today when they apply for a job, it feels to me that a lot of people here in Thailand are just blasting their resume out to the market, hoping that somebody would get back to them.
And I also felt that a lot of Thai people actually, are not as committed to a job as much as an expat is to their job. there’s a lot of flexibility in that. Job in the Thai market in Thailand in the job market in Thailand. I felt like many Thai people switch jobs fairly, quickly. from the experience I had.
Maybe they started at a company. They don’t like it. A few months later, they find another job. They jump to another opportunity and so on and so forth. Maybe they find a company they like to stick around for a year or a year and a half and then change job again. but for a foreigner is much harder.
Obviously, there’s not as many. openings for expats. So you want to pick and choose more carefully. You’re up against foreigners when you’re applying for a foreign job, in Thailand. so obviously you want to still pay close attention to your, to your resume and make sure, it’s polished, it’s accurate.
and just do what you would do when you apply, when, if you applied to the same job in, your own country.
[00:33:49] Scott: yeah, I’d like to take it back to the point that you had about having an edge though, just because that’s an area that I was missing too. I was assuming that my background was good enough.
Whereas when you start to realize the volume of people that want to live and work in Thailand, it’s very high, right? And to your point, I’m not saying that the bar of applicants is necessarily super high, but, a lot of people, want to have a job in Thailand. So as soon as you have a job that’s open up for foreigners, You’re gonna get a ton of people that want that job and in which case you really you have to find a way to Stand out a bit Now you touched on Salary a while back.
So obviously the cost of living in Thailand is quite a bit different than in, Switzerland or, Italy or the U. S., right? obviously you can expect probably different salaries than you can expect back in your home country, right? but have you been able to get your expenses down?
let’s say, I know you’ve built your way back up and you’ve now have, you said you’re pretty happy with your salary. if you, but were you able to make that adjustment pretty well where, When the, with the lower cost of living, you’re able to sustain yourself. Okay. Or, are you still experience any challenges of things that are overly expensive in Thailand that you weren’t expecting to be?
I
[00:35:10] Matteo: mean, Thailand can be as affordable or as expensive as you want it to be. Especially Bangkok. I feel like in the six years I’ve been here, or close to six years that I’ve been regularly being in Thailand, Bangkok has become more and more expensive. You’ve probably been in Thailand more than I have been.
and you could probably confirm that Thailand has become more expensive over the years. But I can definitely say that My, saving to earning ratio has gone up since I’ve moved to Thailand. the cost of living is much lower. you can get a pretty decent apartment in the center of the city or right outside of the city, and not pay a lot of money for it.
Utilities are fairly affordable in Thailand. However, now, in 2023 electricity, for example, the price of electricity has gone up quite substantially, much more than what I used to pay, when I first, rented my apartment, my first apartment here in, Thailand in 2016 or 2017. so there’s definitely a few things that have become more expensive, but, if you’re able to compensate that with a higher salary year after year, you should be able to maintain the sort of saving to salary ratio at the same level or trying to increase it as much as possible, and that which is what I try to do.
I know I’m not trying to, get better and more expensive things as my salary goes up. I’m mostly trying to not leaving frugally, but still trying to live. Modest life. I’m I’ve been living in my apartment here now for the past three and a three and a half years. the rent has just gone up this past month of a few thousand.
But so I was actually very lucky. My landlord didn’t increase the rent too much or as much as I was, as I’m hearing from other people here in Bangkok. Obviously, rent is my biggest expense, and, and all the rest for me, for the most part, goes into eating, I would say, good quality food as much as I can.
so that would probably be my second biggest expense. but I don’t, Yeah, for the most part, I’m mostly saving money because I, want to save for my retirement. I want to invest money and, potentially, buy some property down the line. So there’s definitely more things for me to come in the future here in Thailand.
[00:38:10] Scott: Absolutely. now the, you had mentioned that one of the biggest thing that changes was the let’s say cost of living over the time you’ve been here. is there any other big changes that you have experienced since you’ve been here that you’ve seen in Thailand or changes that you’ve seen in yourself since being here for so long?
[00:38:29] Matteo: I’ll start from the changes I have seen in myself. I am definitely a much happier person, I would say, since I’ve been living here. I’m actually a person that feels I get affected a lot by the weather in general. And, that was why, when I was living in Europe, I felt miserable for the most part because, Switzerland or the UK are for the most part, rainy countries.
And so whenever it’s rainy and gloomy, I don’t feel as happy in general, or as motivated to do anything, but living in a country where there’s more sunny days in a year than rainy days. it makes me feel like. It’s, it just makes me feel happier in general. I feel like I wake up in a better mood, I go to bed in a better mood.
And although I work a lot, there’s days where I’d never really get out of the apartment. I’m mostly looking the world from my window here. I still feel like I have a better quality of life. it may sound funny, but I’m now 37 and I, when I speak with my friends back home, they all tell me that I look younger than.
And they look same age as me, but they feel I feel like having moved away from Europe and potentially here in Thailand, made me Or kept me younger than if I had stayed back home. and that also makes me feel good. I feel like I have more time to take care of my own, my own elf.
I not that when I leave back home, I couldn’t do that, but it was probably even more expensive, like buying good quality meat in Switzerland is expensive. I can buy good quality meat here in Thailand, and it’s obviously an expense, but it’s not as expensive as. taking care of like groceries in Thailand versus Switzerland, for example, so I can definitely eat better food, but better quality food here at a lower cost.
and overall, just You know, doing things that keep me young, going to the gym, go swimming, so things that
[00:40:57] Scott: do you have anything to share then about that? Because obviously, like you said, your mood being good is going to keep you feeling young, but I know you’re also a very health conscious individual, right?
So do you have any tips that you would share when it comes to either? not necessarily health tips exactly, but how you’ve done and stayed healthy in Thailand and in Bangkok and a concrete jungle to a certain extent. how have you maintained that? Do you have any particular, Shops or stores or butchers or anything like that, or places that you tend to get healthy food that you recommend, anything like that?
[00:41:29] Matteo: Yeah, actually, it’s interesting. When I first moved to Asia, I was following a vegetarian or vegan diet back in Europe. and, when I moved to Asia, I was trying to capture To keep that diet for a little bit, but then I realized that I would have missed a lot of the local culture if I, wouldn’t have tried the local food.
And so I ditched the vegan vegetarian diet, at least for a while. I got started in, into veganism and vegetarianism a little bit more later on, but for the past, for the first two or three years of me living in Thailand, and, I. I was mostly eating anything I could put my, my hands on.
A lot of street food, which is not necessarily healthy all the time. it’s very greasy and oily. but once I got enough of that, I decided, okay, now I have to take care of my diet a little bit better. So I decided to go shop for groceries at I generally go at macro. They have a nice, organic, produce section there, and it’s not that expensive.
Eso I usually go at macro a few times a week. That’s right there down the street from my apartment. They opened one branch a few months ago, which is very convenient for me. I generally buy my meat at beta grow, which they open right downstairs from my apartment building, which is, a brand of, it’s a brand where they sell meat of like clean meat, apparently, I hope, and then, I use Palio Robbie as well.
it’s, Palio Robbie is also, a meat delivery service in, in Thailand. apparently they source all their meat from, organic farmers in Thailand and abroad. and so I try to buy my produce from this, from these places as much as possible.
[00:43:39] Scott: Got it. Yeah. And so for people that don’t know, I know Macro, I think.
Think is a brand that exists in the UK or something, but the, it’s equivalent to a Sam’s club or a Costco where you have this big open warehouse where you can buy food in bulk and obviously a lot of poultry and things like that there. So macro is great. It took me a few years to even. I’ve come across them because a lot of times they, exist a little bit on the outskirts or in these larger areas.
So if you don’t live near them, I just, didn’t know they existed. So it’s a, great cheat code. There is to get your food at macro if you can. and yet Paleo Ravi there’s, it’s important to note that a lot of the is going to be grain fed and stuff like that. So you’re, you really do have to go to some sort of specialty places like paleo Robbie to get the better beef here.
and a lot of it’s going to be imported from places like Australia. now the other thing I’m sure you do exercise outside. Is it feasible to go running in the mid afternoon in Thailand? What do you say, Miguel?
[00:44:40] Matteo: I would say the biggest downside of living in Bangkok is that there’s no green space, for the most part.
There are a few parks here and there, but nothing comparable to the parks. I was used to growing up in Europe, in the heart of Europe. In Switzerland. So parks are actually very small. And even if you manage to go to a park, it’s still 35 to 40 degrees on its high humidity. So I wouldn’t recommend going to a park after 10 a.
m. and before sun sunset. Really, it’s just impossible to be outside during this time of the day. yeah, I would say for me as an outdoor kind of person. Banker can be a little bit of a struggle and I actually start to feel, a bit claustrophobic, especially during COVID. I felt very much I didn’t really have the chance to go outside.
I would spend most of my time inside of my little apartment. likely I have a gym upstairs that I can go to and exercise. I have a pool also, which I can go to. use when it’s really hot and I want to maybe swim a bit. But going outside and run outside in the middle of Bangkok is impossible.
There’s too many cars. the exhaustion pipes are running pretty much 24 7. You’re pretty much breeding, exhaust pipe, smokes fumes. If you go around on the streets of Bangkok, that’s that’s a big downside. Definitely. if you decide To live in Bangkok. And if you are a person that enjoys doing outdoor activities, that’s something that you need to get used to.
Or just get a car and either rented by a car and get out of the city during the weekend. If you can, an hour or two outside of Bangkok, north, east or west, you can find pretty nice natural places that you can, explore. Those are really beautiful places and not far from the city of Bangkok.
Obviously, you need to get used to driving in Thailand and, in and out of the city. But once you’ve passed that hurdle, I think it’s feasible.
[00:47:03] Scott: Yeah, absolutely. Now, as you’ve explained, the positive seems to really be. Outweigh the negatives, right? the, there’s some plus sizes to outweigh the, the exhaust and fumes and stuff like that.
But on the cultural side, are there still anything, is there still anything that you find challenging? Not, I think we all come to Thailand and we should know that, we’re visitors here, we’re guests here, right? So it’s not about changing the Thai culture, but if you grew up in another country, There are differences.
So I’m just curious, Matteo, are there any cultural differences that you still find a little bit challenging to overcome after being here for, for several years?
[00:47:44] Matteo: obviously when you have to get in touch with, government officials and, government, how do you call them?
Like, pub public, offices. Yeah,
[00:48:03] Scott: Yeah.
[00:48:04] Matteo: that can be a little bit of a challenge at times. but other than that, I would say Thai people are, for the most part, extremely easy to talk to. I think, obviously if you know a little bit of the local language, you can certainly impress them and, get them exactly, get them in their hearts and feel like, make them feel like you, you’re actually, caring about them.
And I want it to be more and more, part of the culture and the country that you are a part of. living in as a guest, but as a foreigner. So yeah, I would say learning a little bit more of the Thai language is it’s beneficial, for sure. But if you don’t speak the Thai language, I think a lot of Thai people try their very best to either speak to you in English, or, with signs, I think you can always try to communicate with them.
and I’ve never really felt intimidated, going out and interacting with Thai people. In fact, for the most part, I tried to have Thai friends, more than foreigner friends here in Thailand. I feel like I can get there. Much more out of a quote unquote get out. But really, enjoy more my time with a Thai person or an Asian person.
they’re, their style of communication is different. Their way of thinking is different. And I enjoy that. enjoy learning more and more from people that are different than I am, have different cultural background than I have. yeah, I think it’s, It’s an interesting, experience for sure.
[00:49:54] Scott: Yeah, it’s interesting when you mention the paperwork and things like this. I think an easy example for people to understand would be getting a bank account, right? You might assume that’s going to be an easy thing that you just do online, whereas here you just have to get used to the fact that you’re going to be going in to the branch, and you’re going to be filling out and signing every page.
of some 12 page document to get that bank account, signing every page on the front and back, or next to your passport, or whatever, and it’s just, it just has to get done. There’s no way around it. it’s more about accepting. Because, it’s not the individual’s fault that works at the bank. raising a voice and complaining about it doesn’t get you anywhere.
so as soon as you start to accept, okay, I need to, dedicate a half a day to doing this banking stuff. you’re going to be happier once you accept it.
[00:50:41] Matteo: There’s actually a positive side to all this. And that is that to me, I also feel that a lot of things can be done much more quickly here in Thailand than how you would probably do them back home.
if you, want to rent an apartment, you could theoretically do it all in one day. Like you can, Go to a, an apartment complex, ask if they have vacancies. and they would say maybe, yes, we have a few, vacant rooms. They’ll show them to you. If you like any of them, you could sign the lease right at the same time you are visiting them.
You pay your deposit, you get your cards and you are inside your new apartment within a couple hours. So there are things that you can do very quickly. I think there’s a lot of things that. In Europe, potentially would take a few weeks to get done, whereas I think in Thailand, as long as you provide all the documentation that they need, at the time they need them, I think they have no issues, expediting, certain processes.
And if you’re able to pay, I know it’s funny to say, but. If you can pay faster, they can do your thing faster. So I think money talks in Thailand, more than probably in other countries in the Western world.
[00:52:04] Scott: Yeah, that’s a good, that’s a good tip. The kind of expedite charges might be worth it.
And it’s also important to then weigh them of, in a foreign currency, that expedition fee. Might be a lot in Thai baht, but might be pretty low when you convert it back to your home currency. some of those things can, help a lot. Now, Matteo, again, I still know you as someone who just is always working, but I know that sometimes, you take time off.
Is there any, do you have any favorite places, maybe outside of the city, that you’d recommend to people, first coming to Thailand?
[00:52:42] Matteo: close to Bangkok, I like to go to Hua Hin. it’s a couple hours drive, from Bangkok. It’s, it’s a coastal town, very small, but pretty quiet and relaxing for a weekend or a long weekend.
I generally Go there maybe a couple times a year. I rent an Airbnb. I rent a car from Bangkok. I don’t own a car here. So I generally just rent a car, drive down there, spend a couple nights, and then, you Drive back to Bangkok. So I like to do that. what in is, is a, is, as I said, a relaxing small little town.
if you like more excitement and adventure, you can go to Pattaya, which is still a couple hours away from Bangkok. It’s just on the opposite side of the gulf. And, again, different things from different for different people. I like to just relax and enjoy. The quietness and maybe go eat some Thai local Thai food, seafood, and, Yeah, just spend a few days outside of the concrete jungle of Bangkok.
Otherwise, if you, really feel like, traveling a little bit further, I would recommend going to Chiang Mai, up north. you may need to take either a flight or you can take an overnight train to go to Chiang Mai. But Chiang Mai, it’s actually a nice town. it’s not as quiet. To be honest, it’s a little it’s a mini Bangkok, I would say, but it’s surrounded by nature.
It’s surrounded by mountains, which is a, a big plus. If you enjoy doing more outdoor activities, like hiking, potentially you can do, kayaking in some of the rivers up there. So there’s definitely more opportunities to do that type of activities in Chiang Mai than in Bangkok.
[00:54:47] Scott: Now, just reflecting on everything, because you’ve been through quite a bit, you’ve, you’ve lived in different places, you’ve found a way to live health, healthily, and, you’ve, worked your, built up a career here, you’ve done a lot, right?
And, if you reflect on that and you go back to your third year old self, are there any things that either you regret or that you would have done differently?
[00:55:14] Matteo: Not really. I think I’m very happy of the things I was able to accomplish without having a clear idea of what I was, going to, to do when I first decided to leave my life, that I had in Europe and decide to do something completely different here in Asia. I had to find my way through everything because I didn’t do a bunch of research like this.
Potentially a lot of people may do before they take such a big step in their life. I really just bought a ticket and flew out here and. figured it out as I went. so all in all, I feel like I had a pretty good time so far. as I said, a lot of things played out nicely for me and, happened at the, right time.
like when I found my job, it happened at the right time. When the second company approached me, was exactly when. I wasn’t really that happy at my first company, and so it happened all organically very nicely. and I had, a good time finding good friends, exploring the country during my time off during my vacation.
Obviously, Kobe didn’t make You know, the experience of living away from home easy, at least for me, a couple years in lockdown, almost a couple years in lockdown in Thailand, really, was definitely hard. I, had considered to potentially, I want to go back to Europe, I miss my family, I kind of miss being out in nature.
If I eat. if during COVID, I potentially was living in Switzerland, I wouldn’t have been restricted to my apartment. I could go hike, with no problem. But in, in Bangkok, you had to follow strict rules of when to go out and when not to. So that was definitely a hard time. But all in all, I wouldn’t have probably done anything different than what I did.
I think I, I find myself now, six years later at a good place. I didn’t have a lot of expectations back then. I just wanted to explore a new continent, maybe find a new place to settle. and then from there I took one step after the other. So that was just finding my first job, try to learn more about the local culture, the local job market.
Then I found another job and so on and so forth. So it
[00:57:59] Scott: really sounds like that positivity that you brought up at the beginning of the interview. Staying healthy and then staying positive, it seems to have served you well, right? Cause I think we’ve probably both seen a lot of people that have come and gone, right?
So there’s networking events and entrepreneurial events and stuff like that. And people that are like, bright eyed and bushy tailed, right? But then fast forward a couple of weeks and they’re flying back home. so that, that happens plenty of times, but, you stuck with it. And you stay positive and like you said the things arrived when they need to arrive and the opportunities presented themselves as they needed to, now I think one of the last questions I have for you, Matteo.
not just specifically about Thailand, but, what’s on your mind now? what do you have ahead of you? What sort of goals do you have or things are you looking forward to over the next few years?
[00:58:47] Matteo: Good question. I think a part of me still wants to, think of myself as someone who sort of a long term plan of staying in Thailand. Like I, I, enjoy being here. I have a girlfriend, we’ve been together for a few years. and all in all, I feel like very fortunate of. of having her in my life, but I also enjoy the work I do at pronto marketing, in the future while I’m approaching my forties, although I’m still like a couple of years away from, that sort of milestone.
but a dream of mine would be to have the chance of one day, maybe buying a house in Thailand. I would like to, as I said, I’ve been doing freelance work on and off for many years. There is a part of me that would love to own my own business, frankness, and, do that full time in the, space that I’m very passionate, about, which is digital marketing and SEO.
and so that’s very much in my mind. there’s definitely a, a possibility of me potentially doing that, in the sometime in the future.
[01:00:15] Scott: Excellent. speaking of that, I can only recommend you highly enough, both in terms of what you’ve done, at Pronto Marketing, and I’ve known you also on the side of, clients you’ve helped of mine, on the SEO side of things.
And, so yeah, I can only recommend you enough, but, what is the best way for people to contact you, whether they are looking for either to just learn more about you and what you experienced, if they’re thinking about maybe coming into Thailand or if they’re, a company that probably has nothing to do with Thailand, but has heard of Matteo and is thinking, I need some help with SEO and, maybe, he can, help me, boost my keyword rankings and things like that.
What’s the best way to get in touch with you?
[01:01:00] Matteo: For sure. the easiest way would be to go on LinkedIn and find me there, Matteo Trovato. I should be the first and only one coming up. or you can go on my own website, matteotrovato.com. and from there you can see my one page website. there is a contact, a form, or you can send me an email at [email protected].
[01:01:31] Scott: Awesome. it’s been a pleasure speaking with you. we’ve known each other for a few years, but I hadn’t had the chance to ask you all these questions, right? I appreciate you letting me do it in an open forum like this. and yeah, it’s been great, Matteo. Thanks for taking the time.
[01:01:46] Matteo: Thank you, Scott, for having me.
[01:01:48] Scott: I really hope you enjoyed the interview with Matteo. He took a leap of faith when he decided to leave for Europe and fly to Thailand without a clear plan. He learned how to stand out from other expats when applying for jobs in Thailand, and after several years of hard work, he earned his way into a leadership position.
Matteo embraced Thai culture, now living a more healthy and less stressful lifestyle. while still managing to save for his retirement. And that is how Matteo Travato made it in Thailand. I hope you learned something, and I’ll catch you on the next one.
